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 POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)

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PostSubject: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:58 pm

Hi Folks,

As you're reading this novel, you're probably going to come across a line (or short passage) that really causes you to stop reading and ponder the idea.

In this section, feel free to share a line or passage with the class. Quote the line, give the page number from the Dover edition, and then feel free to tell us what caused you to stop and focus on this line. In essence, share with us your insights into this particular line or passage.

I can't wait to see what lines you folks select. lol! afro flower


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LeN

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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:32 am

"[The moans] express the consciousness that you have no enemy to punish, but that you have pain" (page 9).
The narrator is talking about toothache. However, I think there is much more behind it. We can relate what he say to many unfortunate things happened in life that are the mere results of chance. Accidents that are undesirable, but happen nonetheless with no one to take blame and responsibility. They anger you, yet you can do nothing about it. There is no one to retaliate, and gain the statisfaction of vengeance. I think the narrator is trapped in this mental state in. That is probably why he has this malevolent tone in part I.
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bri fej

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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:54 pm

"Of course I cannot break through the wall by battering my head against it if I really have not the strength to knock it down, but I am not going to be reconciled to it simply because it is a stone wall and I have not the strength." (page eight)

The narrator is saying that although in life we are but "a worm" - insignificant and small, he refuses to live simply by his fate. He is going to make his own decisions and not allow himself to be pushed around. The narrator refuses to succumb to anyone/anything willingly, meaning he is extremely steadfast. He realizes that he does not have that much power, but he still will not allow himself to become a weak individual.

I love you
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brittanyS1



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PostSubject: Great Lines or Moments from Notes from the Underground   Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:12 pm

"...Perhaps the only goal on earth to which mankind is striving lies in this incessant process of attaining, in other words, in life itself, and not in the thing to be attained, which must always be expressed as a formula, as positive as twice two makes four, and such positiveness is not life, gentlemen, but is the beginning of death." (Page 23)

This quote shows the Underground Man's existential point of view that because we are put on this certain path of life, it is up to us to make something of ourselves, give ourselves a goal so that we may have a purpose. The whole process of life is the striving to reach that goal. But once we are done striving, what is there left to do? This explains why mathematical formulas and such are the beginnings of death because they tell us everything we need to know and therefore make the act of striving and experiencing life a useless task. This quote just makes a person think that without these tasks, we have no purpose and without purpose we are dead.
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AustinL



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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:14 pm

"What has made them conceive that man must want a rationally advantageous choice? What man wants is simple independent choice,"

I chose this quote because it deals with the responsibility aspect of Existentialism. Men can choose the rational and follow the marked path or he can choose to do what ever he wants he can spitefully let his dieseas fester or go to a doctor. With the free agency we all have we can make these independent choices no matter how ridiculous or harmful they may be.
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gargigodbole

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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:17 pm

I just finished Part 1 of the book and till now, the only line that struck me deeply is the first paragraph of the novel:
" I AM A SICK MAN.... I am a spiteful man. I am an unattractive man. I believe my liver is diseased. However, I know nothing at all about my disease, and do not know for certain what ails me. I don't consult a doctor for it, and never have, though I have a respect for medicine and doctors. Besides, I am extremely superstitious, sufficiently so to respect medicine, anyway (I am well-educated enough not to be superstitious, but I am superstitious). No, I refuse to consult a doctor from spite. That you probably will not understand. Well, I understand it, though. Of course, I can't explain who it is precisely that I am mortifying in this case by my spite: I am perfectly well aware that I cannot "pay out" the doctors by not consulting them; I know better than anyone that by all this I am only injuring myself and no one else. But still, if I don't consult a doctor it is from spite. My liver is bad, well -- let it get worse!" (page 1)

When I read this paragraph, I said to myself, this person has some serious issues he needs to figure out. I was completely disgusted by his attitude towards himself and life in general. This paragraph basically convinced me to read further. I don't mind reading it now that I have gotten thus far, but I am just awaiting to begin reading part two in which I can find out why he has such a pessimistic outlook on life, and maybe understand hi better.


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JeffAlmario



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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:35 pm

"I made friends with no one and positively avoided talking, and buried myself more and more in my hole." - Pg. 29

This quote shows how the narrator's alienation is hurting him in a negative way. He describes that by not communicating with others, he is "burying himself more and more in my[his] hole." This quote also reminds me of the opening part in the book where he talks about his reluctance to see his doctor about his liver problem. By doing so, he is burying himself in a bigger hole which could lead to problems later on down the road.
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DieaEruP.2



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PostSubject: Quote   Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:21 pm

"...all ready made and worked out with mathematical exactitude so that every possible question will vanish in the twinkling of an eye, simply because every possible answer to it will be provided. Then the "palace of crystal" will be built."(17)

This portrays our world more chaotic rather than perfect. The quote displays the existential belief in that the world we are brought into is not orderly or clearly layed out as a mathematical equation. The actual world is nonsensical and filled with many unanswered questions yet to be discovered. He goes on to say that if life were as easy to make out with mathematical exactitude and we actually lived within the "palace of crystal", then life would become "frightfully dull". Which in my opinion is true; everything would be answered and life would seem to have no point. As there would no longer be the struggle of discovering the unknown, and the beauty of discovery would be eliminated.
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kevinb

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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:01 pm

"What sort of free will is left when we come to tabulation and arithmetic." (Page 21).

It seems as though he is trying to get readers to also question the things he questions. As a reader, it got me to question the idea that if humans are supposed to act of free will, then why are there laws that we should follow in life? Where is the free will, if we're limited to certain laws and guidelines?

I think the main character is trying to show that people are limited to certain guidelines in society and he seems to reject that idea of order and laws.
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phNguyen

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PostSubject: Great Lines or Moments from Notes from Underground   Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:06 pm

"But enough, I don't want to write more from "Underground." p. 91

I chose this quote for it reveals the most about the narrator. Throughout the whole book, he hints that he would rather be alone. Now at the end, he does not want to write underground anymore. This shows that he cannot be trusted with anything that he says. I believe the only reason why he hates life is that he is ugly, poor and everybody else is better than him. He would have a completely different view of life if his life was like Zverkov's-rich, powerful, beautiful, and popular. He is just pretending to be an existentialist for the only way he can get through his poor pathetic miserable life is being spiteful.
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Jess.M.Period1



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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:25 pm

"Man likes to make roads and to create, that is a fact beyond dispute. But why has he such a passionate love for destruction and chaos also?" (page 22)

Throughout the book, the underground man is very outspoken about his views on the world and about mankind. This quote shows that as much as he has observed, that even he will never fully understand human behavior. This also proves his point that man has free will, and what he chooses to do will not always make sense, or fit into an equation.
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lheying



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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:43 pm

page.19 "You see, Gentlemen, reason is a excellent thing, there is no disputing that, but reason is nothing but reason and satisfies only the rational side of man's nature, while will is a manifestation of the whole life, that is, of the whole human life including reason and all the impulses."

I believe this quote goes back to the whole existentialism topic that we discussed in class. That your opinions are only opinions and mean nothing to the others but mean everything to you. The actions we take in life speak louder than the words we say or the opinions we form. He basically is admitting to the fact that what he is writing is just his opinion and his views and in the long run mean nothing. afro
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JohnN

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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:58 pm

"In short, if this could be arranged there would be nothing left for us to do; anyway, we should have to understand that. And, in fact, we ought unwearyingly to repeat to ourselves that at such and such a time and in such and such circumstances nature does not ask our leave; that we have got to take her as she is and not fashion her to suit our fancy, and if we really aspire to formulas and tables of rules, and well, even ... to the chemical retort, there's no help for it, we must accept the retort too, or else it will be accepted without our consent...." (pg. 19)

I thought that this quote from Notes from the Underground perfectly captures the basis of existentialism. The basis of existentialism is free will, and if fate was predetermined (as in some ideologies and religions) it would leave humans with nothing to choose on their own. The "Underground Man" is reminding the reader to not put fault or credit to the events in their life to anyone/thing other than themselves. It also reminds me of how the "Underground Man" is as well, since he is a spiteful man, yet puts no blame on anybody and accepts his life the way he has made it. An existentialist must accept the world for how it is and must take responsiblity for whatever may happen.
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kjohnson



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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:13 pm

page 17:
"One's own free unfettered choice, one's own caprice, however wild it may be, one's own fancy worked up at times to frenzy- is that very "most advantageous advantage" which we have overlooked, which comes under no classification and against which all systems and theories are continually being shattered to atoms."

I believe that the main point of this quote is choice, man's right to choose. He is stating that one of the biggest advantages in life is having the freedom to choose. Every person has the right to make impulsive decisions that, if you think about it in a existentialism way, can change the path that you walk on in life. flower
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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:46 pm

"And what leads you to the conclusion that man's inclinations need reforming?" (22).

This quote is along the same lines of Jessica and Brittany's (as they are around the same pages). I disagree with the UG Man in that progress is a good thing. He's using moral relativism to justify his own lack of action. By criticizing the "active man" and trivializing their efforts, he defends himself for crawling into his mouse hole and not contributing anything to society. Tricky distraction but don't fall for it!
afro
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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:06 pm

"And choice, of course, the devil only knows what choice" (18).

This quote opens Dostoevsky's arguement for the next chapeter, and that is the arguement of free will. Does one have the opportunity to choose one's path in life or is it already planned out for us? And if we can choose by are there still those who choose evil? What pushes our actions to be evil? What is the point? And if God were the one planning, why does so much evil occur in peoples actions? Hmm hmm?
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kielbasaSausage1



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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:22 pm

"...everything he does is not done by his willing it, but is done of itself, by the laws of nature...What man wants is simply independent choice (16-18).

He no longer wants to be ruled by the laws of nature and do what he has to do, but wishes to do what he wants to do--independence.

Also, the cool sunglass dude (above) is the result of placing a parenthesis after the number 8, so just think of the face above as the number 8.

Cool
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JanaeNae



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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:54 pm

" Another circumstance too worried me in those days: That there was no one like me and i was unlike anyone else. I AM ALONE and they are everyone, i thought- and pondered." (31)

This really stuck out for me because it shows that even at a younger age this feeling of alienation was still occuring in him. In the page before this he is talking about how he is constantly alternating between despising others and thinking them superior to himself. This also helps to understand his inability to interact with others. mmhm.
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Tsprague6



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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:44 pm

"'Ha! ha! ha! But you know there is no such thing a choice in reality, say what you like,' you will interpose with a chuckle. 'Science had succeeded in so far analysing man that we know already that choice and what is called freedom of will is nothing else than-'" page 18

There could not be a more prime example of Dostoyevesky's attitude towards life than this quote right here. He feels that fate has already been decided, and although we may think we have choices, those choices which we make have already been decided for us. This brought up a good discussion in class as to whether or not we do have choices in life. We go to school by choice right? We do homework by choice too, right? So in a sense we do have the power to make choices, even though they may not be what we want sometimes.
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mar89

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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:50 pm

"Does not man, perhaps, love something besides well-being? Perhaps he is just as fond of suffering? Perhaps suffering is just as great a benefit to him as well-being? Man is sometimes extraordinarily, passionately, in love with suffering, and that is a fact" (23).

I chose this quote because I thought that is was very relevant to the whole purpose of this novel, and to true life as well. Dostoyevsky is clearly a man who enjoys embarassing others, and inflicting pain on others whether it be through humiliation, pranks, or physical pain. By reading this novel, we can certainly see that he is a man who enjoys suffering just as much, if not more, than his personal well being.

This is also very true in our every day life. People like to hear about other people suffering, because it makes us feel better about our own insignificant lives. We also like being the ones who are suffering, because we know that others will comfort us and give us attention. The news and media is a perfect example of this, because people tend to watch the news more when the highlights are about terrorists abusing soldiers in Iraq, rather than a grocery store that went bankrupt. I don't believe that most sane people enjoy suffering more than being well, but people are drawn to personal, and impersonal suffering.
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mrose



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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:52 pm

Page 7

"...knowing that from all its efforts at revenge it will suffer a hundred time more than he on whom it revenges itself..."

I chose this quote because to me it is ironic. Usually people who achieve vengence, achieve an ease in their pain. In my opinion, revenge isn't suppossed to make the avenger suffer.

But maybe he isn't being so literal. Perhaps he means that the mouse's conscious thought causes it to feel and think negatively. The mouse's consciousness results in doubts and questions and therefore the revenge is never carried through. The object goes without feeling the wrath of the mouse. Therefore the mouse will suffer far worse than the object.
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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:19 pm

"But yet I am firmly persuaded that a great deal of consciousness, every sort of consciousness, in fact, is a disease" (4).

Being aware of oneself, being aware of one's existence is the basis of human nature. But with this freedom and intelligence comes the responsibilities to decide for oneself, to make decisions, to create one's essence; the underground man feels anxious about his choices and the burden of the responsibility. But at the same time, he also feels enjoyment from this power no matter how grotesque his actions might be.
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mhandf12



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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:05 pm

"This was a regular martyrdom, a continual, intolerable humiliationat the thought, which passed into an incessant and direct sensation that I was a mere fly in the eyes of all this world-more intellegent, more highly-developed,more refined in feeling than any of them..." -P36

I find it so peculiar how he feels a rush of enjoyment when he is stepped on by those around him, those lesser beings which he finds so amusing. He likes that he is responsible for himself being shoved aside while everyone else has no realization of what has made them the way they are.
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chelseac89



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PostSubject: Great Lines or Moments from Notes from the Underground   Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:32 pm

"Possibly", you will add on your own account with a grin, " people will not understand it either who have never recieved a slap in the face, " and in that way you will politely hint to me that i too, perhaps, have had the expirience of a slap in the face and so i speak as one who knows...but set your minds at rest...i have not recieved a slap in the face." page 8

In the previous pages leading up to this one he goes on to explain how a "slap in the face" affects a person and how it generally makes them feel. Whats funny about this specific quote is the fact that he explains how he has never really been slapped in the face, and the question on my mind is, "how can you describe an expirience if you have never personally experienced it?"
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[ s y n n e ]

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PostSubject: Re: POST:Great Lines from Notes from Underground (closes Sun.)   Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:40 pm

'And through the developement of this many-sidedness man may come to finding enjoyment in bloodshed. In fact, this has already happen to him. Have you noticed that it is the most civilised gentlemen who have been the subtlest slaughterers...'

PG. 16

I just love this quote because - as the old saying goes: "Its always the quiet ones that are the crazy ones" or something rather. This quote says the same thing - I believe. t just says that man loves to kill, and no matter how much we say 'Thou shall not kill' or something similiar - we kill. I just think this is true. =o Razz
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